Jennifer Vesbit is a Nationally Certified Counselor who rode the IVF roller coaster twice. Her first IVF cycle ended in a heartbreaking miscarriage and no remaining embryos. Her second cycle gave her twins, and one remaining embryo. Jen and her husband agonized over what to do with that one embryo and decided to donate to a single mom by choice. That embryo is now a healthy and happy little boy. Throughout her journey, Jen found a lack of education and support for people considering embryo donation, so she and her partners founded EM•POWER with Moxi. Rachael, Outreach Manager with Donor Concierge, had an opportunity to learn more about embryo donation during our IG live with Jen. The interview below has been edited for clarity.
Rachael
Hi there. We are welcoming Jen, who is one of the co-founders of EM•POWER with Moxi. Can you give us a brief overview of what you do and the services you provide?
Jen
Oh, absolutely. I love talking about embryo donation, which is what we do. EM•POWER with Moxi was formed back in 2019, so we have been around for a little while. The first three and a half years of our organization, we really focused on education and support around embryo donation. For embryo donors who were considering donation and or had donated, as well as people with cryopreserved embryos who didn't know what to do, were paying their storage bill could not find an answer to make a decision as well as people that were considering it as a family building option and education for clinics as well as mental health professionals and legal professionals in the field. That is how we started. In August of last year, we launched a matching platform called Moxi Matching, where we match embryo donors and recipients and then do all the journey management throughout the process to make it as seamless as possible for our clients and clinics as well. So, that is what we do.
Rachael
That’s great. And would you call yourself an agency?
Jen
We don't necessarily call ourselves an agency. I don't know what exactly we are other than we are three women who came together as embryo donors. Two of us are embryo donors. I'm an embryo donor, as is my partner, Gina Davis. She's also a genetic counselor in the field. Our third partner, Maya, is a parent via embryo donation. So, we are three women that came together with a mission to try to change the landscape of embryo donation. People either do not know much about it often, or they have this preconceived notion that there is a lot of Christian religious back tone, pro-life. To receive an embryo, you need to be a heterosexual couple that has been married for X number of years, all of that. We really came around to educate that embryo donation can be all sorts of things. It could be that all sorts of families can build their family this way as well as to educate people with frozen embryos that it is a hard decision when it comes to what to do with your embryos. We are pro embryo donation, which is what we do, but we're also pro-education and pro-decision making. My partner Maya likes to say we are three mamas on a mission to help navigate directed embryo donation.
"In August of last year, we launched a matching platform called Moxi Matching, where we match embryo donors and recipients and then do all the journey management throughout the process to make it as seamless as possible for our clients and clinics as well."
Rachael
I was looking at your website, and you have a lot of amazing information in your blogs. You do provide a complimentary consultation for people if they are just starting to explore this as an option, is that right?
Jen
Yes, absolutely. There are two places to start. Yes, we do have a blog on our website, but we also have an educational platform. It is online and it is completely free. It is for both potential donors, potential recipients, and again, anybody in the field. And we have five recorded webinars. We have a guidebook on embryo donation. We have a workbook on embryo donation where you can work through what this might mean for you on either side. We have podcasts recorded, we have written articles, so that is a great place to start. It can be a little bit overwhelming because some people come to us, and they don't really know where to start. If you just want to start with a phone call, you can also just schedule a 15-minute phone call and then I can also provide you with some educational pieces that would be best for you.
Rachael
That's great. This would be beneficial for Donor Concierge clients. Normally they are not thinking about embryo donation at this stage in the process. Many of them are anxious to start building their family and not thinking about further down the line. When you are dealing with third-party, is there any added complexity to this?
Jen
Yes, well, let me start by saying, although I did not use third party reproduction, a lot of people that are going through IVF are not thinking about what to do if they have leftover embryos. They just desperately want to become a parent. So, I completely relate to that in terms of whether it complicates things. The more people involved, the more stakeholders, it is going to complicate it slightly. One of the things that we must ensure when people come to us, and they have used either donor egg or donor sperm, is some sort of legal authorization for donation that is often back in the original contract. Some people are on top of that, and they know from the get-go, and some people are like, oh my gosh, I do not know where my contract is. Let me look it up and find that.
So, it can be a little bit complicated, but we try to help support and walk you through that as well as having great legal advisors that are around if the contract cannot be found. And of course, if you use donor egg or donor sperm, that is just even more people that are around in the world that these children may be interested in knowing about one day. So of course, if some people have a relationship, an open relationship with their egg or sperm donor, others.
How it works with Moxi Matching is you build an initial profile and then we welcome you and onboard you onto the platform and we are going to start talking about all these things from the get-go, all the factors. When we help you do your journey management, we obtain all the necessary documents, do mental health consultations, and do legal and all of that.
Rachael
It sounds like you are helping people who have reached that stage where they have already built their families and they are not sure what to do with their remaining embryos. I noticed something on your website that was in a blog, and it said, “When do you know is the right time to explore embryo donation as an option?” And that would be a good question for our clients because they are not thinking about embryo donation at the beginning of their fertility journey. What are your thoughts about that?
Jen
I have so much difficulty answering that question. The answer is when you feel your family is complete, right? I mean, that is the answer, but that could mean so many different things. That could mean you have teenagers, are pregnant with twins and are done. Although ASRM guidelines say to wait until after you have given birth, it may be best to wait 6 months or a year. But I really struggle with that. How do you know? When do you know your family is complete?
Some people are more certain than others, and some people feel more connected to their embryos than others, and that can be a factor. I think the one thing that is unique about embryo donation is that embryo donors often have their own children. Some people donate before they have their own children. But no matter what, you are really donating your children's full genetic siblings, if you want to use that word, and that can weigh heavily on people.
We talk a lot about conceptualization of embryos and how that weighs into the decision on the part of the donating person or couple. If you are in a relationship with the fellow embryo donor, people do not always agree. So that can be challenging as well. One person in the partnership may feel strongly about donating and the other does not. We try to help normalize and talk about these things because again, we have all been there in our own unique way. I donated one embryo; my partner Gina donated several and she is in the process of donating more. So, we both land on two different sides of the spectrum in terms of what that was like for us. We try to tell our stories and help normalize the process for people.
Rachael
I know all three of you, as you said, have personal experience, and so that is extremely helpful to anyone that is coming to you and looking for more information. What are the most common concerns that you find?
Jen
When it comes to donors, I just spoke to a few of them in terms of making that final decision. Also, I think for donors, a lot of times they wonder how I will feel? It is impossible to know until you go through it. Sometimes that is hard for people to let sink in that this is a journey, and you will not know how you feel until you go through it. So, we do a lot of normalization around feelings. I also think another thing for donors is, “Will people want my embryos?” That is becoming more complicated now with all the technology and all the testing that can be done on embryos. When I donated back in 2016, I had one single untested embryo and I had a lot of interest, and we found a recipient and he is now a 7-year-old boy living in the world.
That said, if I were to try to donate now in 2024, it would be challenging to donate because recipients would prefer somebody that had multiple tested embryos. A lot of donors that come to us are spurred by their storage bill. People continue to pay for their storage because they want to put off the decision making. And so sometimes when they come, they are like, ready yesterday. People that come to us that want to build their family through embryo donation have often been through a lot already.
Sometimes people come to us, and they had been considering traditional adoption, but got a little disheartened by the system and how that works. They also want to know the timeline. The way we work on our platform is we do not have a waiting list to view donors. If they find a good match, they could technically build a profile, get on our platform tonight, request a match, have a match meeting next week, and start the journey management process, which is, I will say three to six months. So, it can happen very quickly. But again, there are a lot of things that need to happen for that match to take place. A combination of the scientific side, which again is going to be the number of embryos, the grading of the embryos, all of that. And then the connection side, because all our donations are known.
We do at least require a match meeting. People do not have to use their full name. If they are on the end of the spectrum of not wanting much contact, we can help them navigate that. And that is one thing we ask in their profile building, because some people want a lot of contact on both sides. And then some people are in the middle and say, "I don't really know." Let us see how this is going to go. To me, those are the people that often work the best when they do not know. But yes, we do only known directed donation, but again, we can help you if you do not want to exchange personal information and you just want to have contact for children down the road.
"We are pro-embryo donation, which is what we do, but we're also pro-education and pro-decision making."
Rachael
Would you say that most of the people on your platform are leaning towards having contact, or do you see the full range?
Jen
We see a range. We have had a few matches that have not wanted a lot of contact. I would say most fall in the middle, we donors are really like, I would like to leave it up to the recipient family. I cannot imagine what that might be like. Let us let them make the decisions. But we also have some people that match and text every day. And I think so far, we have five pregnancies, and hopefully a few more on the way. So again, some of those people are, they have met in person. We have had several donors and recipients that have already met in person. Some people are in frequent contact. So, it is really the spectrum, and we try to honor that spectrum for people.
Rachael
Historically embryo donation would have taken place mostly through clinics, is that right?
Jen
Yes, mostly. There are some agencies that have been around for a while, but yes, a lot of clinics still have their own programs. A lot of them still do non-directed, anonymous programs. So, that is why many people come to us if they feel that it is not for them.
Rachael
I feel like embryo donation is an important service because we are dealing with people in the beginning of their journey, or they have been through years of heartache, but they are just eager to build their family and not really thinking about further down the line. What would you recommend for our intended parents if they want to keep that as an option in the future? Is it just the legal contract in the beginning?
Jen
Yes, definitely. Educate yourself about what it is and what it can be and the variety of, like we were just talking about relationship options and things like that. I know it is extremely hard for people to start thinking about that on the front end, but at the same time, it is important. It is never too early to reach out to us. We have had people reach out to us and I have done consultations with people that are just beginning their own journey to build embryos and to go through IVF, and so we are always around to help.
There are more people talking about embryo donation now, and that know somebody with frozen embryos, or knows somebody that has built a family via embryo donation. It is becoming increasingly common. Also, there is a lot more support now than when I went through it. When I went through it, I would Google search embryo donation support. I could not come up with much. Now it is talked about on social media. If you are on social media, obviously Instagram. So, there are ways to get that support, and that is why we are doing it because Maya, Gina and I went through it, and we did not know what we were doing. Really the whole reason we built EM•POWER with Moxi is to offer support and the guidance and logistical help that we wish we had had when we went through it.
Rachael
That's amazing. So, when somebody comes to you, you provide recommendations for everyone that needs to be involved – lawyers, mental health professionals, etc.
Jen
We have mental health professionals and lawyers in every state. We have a wonderful legal advisor, Amanda Troxler, who is in the state of California. So, yes, we can either help you ourselves or connect you with somebody who can be of service.
Rachael
That’s great. What is the best way for somebody to contact you?
Jen
We have a 15-minute consultation with me. You can find that through the support tab on our website. If you want to learn more about embryo donation in general, we have the educational tab on our website. If you want to explore embryo donation to build a family or have been sitting on frozen embryos for years. That is when the Moxi Matching part comes in. We have a tab on our website Moxi Matching. The best way to start gaining information is to review our FAQs for donors and recipients where we try hard to spell out the process. And then there is another area where you can just jump onto our platform and start building your profile again. Once you get your profile built and submit it, we also reach out and have one-on-one conversations with you. So, we try to do a lot of, I do not know if the words handholding, we are incredibly involved.
It is still just the three of us. We are growing and expanding and all of that, but we are all so passionate about it that you will hear a lot from us if you join the platform.
Rachael
If we had a client that was interested in exploring embryo donation as an option, do you offer them guidance when creating their profiles?
Jen
We will review everything that they have to make sure there are no deal breakers. We will also start talking about gathering documents that we need. If they did use a sperm or egg donor, we like to gather the profiles, the legal clearance as I mentioned earlier. So, yes, we help people build and refine their profiles on both sides.
Rachael
That is interesting. So, when it comes to third party, the donor family is creating a profile of the biological parents, so would it be the same profile that was used for the egg donor or sperm donor?
Jen
We try to make it clear because the actual donors may not be the egg or sperm contributors, so we collect medical and genetic information from whomever is the biological source for the embryos. It can get a little confusing sometimes. We have had some people that come to us, a same-sex female couple, for example, and embryos were created using both their eggs. But we will help you work through all of that and make sure that it is clear in your profile.
Rachael
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to explain Moxi matching and tell us more about EM•POWER with Moxi.
Jen
If you have questions, you can just reach out to us, we are either on Instagram in with Moxi or through our email, which is hello@empowerwithmoxi.com. Go to our website and book a consultation, a phone call.
Rachael
Thank you so much for joining us today. It was nice talking with you. And we will be in touch with you further and if any of our clients are interested in learning more, we will have them reach out.
Jen
Yes, absolutely. Thank you. And we love Donor Concierge and everything that you do, so thank you so much for having us, having me.